The Energy Question Episode 60: Dave Talks With the One and Only Doomberg

 

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David Blackmon [00:01:06] Hey, Welcome to the Energy Question with David Blackmon, I am your host, David Blackmon. And I have with me a very, very special guest today. It’s Doomberg the lead writer for Doomberg at Substack. Doomberg, How are you doing today?

Doomberg [00:01:21] David, Doing Great. Quite the honor to be here I’m looking forward to a very robust discussion.

David Blackmon [00:01:26] Well, it’s it’s really an honor to have you here you’ve been one of my favorite writers about Energy and Economics for four years now. And I just really am very honored that you’d come on our Podcast here today. I always enjoy your insights and expertise on things that I really care about. So. So thanks for being here.

Doomberg [00:01:48] My pleasure.

David Blackmon [00:01:50] So I think before we get into the Q&A and I just love the chicken man that’s so awesome. Before we get into it, though, take a minute or two and talk about the origins of Doomberg, why you’re there, what your mission is, and what you’re trying to accomplish.

Doomberg [00:02:06] You bet. Doom Burg is, as you say, it’s a substack we write 6 to 8 articles per month. We are, you know, 100% subscriber supported we run a subscription business now this is what we do for a living. We are a small team of former Executives from the Commodity Sector.

Doomberg [00:02:23] I personally am a scientist and have a pretty good molecular map of how the globe works and how economies operate down to the sort of chemical molecular level, and we leverage that expertise combined with the finance training on our team to write about energy finance and the economy at large.

Doomberg [00:02:40] And we think the thing that makes us unique and one of the reasons why we’ve been successful is because we do bring that industrial lens to topics of the day that very few people from industry with relevant training in the sectors that we cover are free to communicate openly on these topics. They are hindered by corporate public affairs teams and fear of saying the wrong thing and being canceled or, you know, losing their RSU of their stock options. And so most people with relevant industrial experience simply stay out of the debate.

David Blackmon [00:03:12] Yeah.

Doomberg [00:03:12] And this is the inefficiency in the market that we have chosen to occupy. And it has been really quite the journey as you mentioned, we’re now two and a half years into this and we are stunned and humbled to be the number one finance substack in the world and among the probably top five most successful substack on the platform.

Doomberg [00:03:35] I’m very grateful to the Substack team, grateful for every subscriber, and that it truly is the work of my life. And we are so blessed to be able to wake up every day and do what we love and make a healthy living doing it. So this is my literal definition of rich and so yeah, that’s the background that’s the story on Super.

David Blackmon [00:03:51] Well that’s Fantastic. And I just please accept my gratitude for filling the space you’re filling because I know how hard it is. I was in government affairs and communications myself in the corporate world for a long, long time now, so I can write in Substack myself. And the beauty of Substack is it gives you a lot of freedom to create, as you want to say, which is really on your mind.

David Blackmon [00:04:16] And so far anyway, has resisted efforts by our government to censor things there. And hopefully, that will continue. In fact, I want to start our discussion today with the announcement you made on August 2nd, and I found you on Twitter a couple of years ago, and that’s how I started following it.

David Blackmon [00:04:34] But he announced on August 2nd, which is about a week before we’re recording this, that you will be essentially leaving Twitter, although you’re not deleting your account, which is smart. I made that mistake once and focused on Substack for a variety of reasons that I wanted to give you a chance to talk about here at the top of the show.

Doomberg [00:04:59] So when people say that we are leaving Twitter, I suppose that’s technically true although in reality, Twitter left most Substack Authors months ago. You, as a fellow author on the platform, will know all too well that when Substack decided to launch notes, which is a competitive offering to Twitter.

Doomberg [00:05:23] They did so at sort of the apex of the chaos around the new management’s ownership, early days of ownership of the Twitter platform. As you know, they fired most of their employees and made all kinds of changes to the platform.

Doomberg [00:05:38] One of the things that happened when Substack announced that it was developing notes was that any and all links to Substack articles were throttled. We believe that our account itself was probably shadow banned in some form or another.

Doomberg [00:05:54] The platform used to be a wonderful outlet for our creativity and a great way for people to find Doomberg but we’ve grown big enough now, and to build a business like this is one thing to maintain and perhaps even grow or beat back turn is a completely different matter altogether. And for several months we were in denial, still pouring a lot of effort into the Twitter platform and seeing radically diminished returns on our effort.

Doomberg [00:06:22] And look, we’re a very, very small team you could count on one hand the number of people involved in Doomberg and have a few fingers left over and we have to prioritize we’ve stayed lean on purpose. We we believe we joke around the office that if we hired ten more people, we might be 20% more effective.

Doomberg [00:06:39] You know, if you have fully dedicated 100% focused, eat what you kill, you know, the mindset of execution and discipline and continuous improvement. We have to guard our resources very carefully we have hired a social media assistant to help and maintain the mirage that we’re still active on Twitter perhaps that would risk the magic that is embedded in our team.

Doomberg [00:07:06] But more importantly, we don’t really say it in the article, But one of the things that we are trying to do is to help smaller substacks who are gaining no eyeballs and no leverage and no traction on Twitter to create the opportunity for perhaps a critical mass of people to move over to notes. And this is where we’re going to be exclusively participating going forward.

Doomberg [00:07:33] And full disclosure, we are Equity Investors in Substack we participated in that author-led round. We wrote a pretty healthy check they’re our partners we want to see them succeed and so we are not unbiased or without conflict as we ponder this decision and we disclose that in the piece. That’s not why we left Twitter, but it certainly impacted where we decided to go so we’re not on threads or LinkedIn or anywhere else of consequence.

Doomberg [00:07:57] And so, you know, the new owner of Twitter is free to do whatever he wants with his privately owned property. It’s a shame that the systematic sort of de-throttling of all substack-related material has occurred is still occurring. We showed in the piece where we would publish a link to one of our articles you know, historically we would get 500 to 1000 likes and recently we got, I think 14 over a period of nine days. And substantively we have 259,000 followers on Twitter. I mean, that tells you the data.

Doomberg [00:08:35] Now, look, we have 175,000 176,000 emails on the Substack platform which is an unbelievable foundation of growth. We we decided to ask our readers to help us grow through referrals and gifts.

Doomberg [00:08:48] And by the way, this totally aligns our incentives. So if we continue to delight our readers, then they will help us grow. And that is far better than trying to trick an algorithm that is programmed against us. And so with very limited resources and almost on principle, you know, we would rather lose with our partners than win with an antagonist.

David Blackmon [00:09:10] Yeah.

Doomberg [00:09:11] And we don’t think that you know, the new owner of Twitter is specifically antagonistic towards us. We just happen to be Substack We dance with the one that yeah, we grew this business with the help and partnership of Substack and we want to we’d love many members of the team and get to know them over the years, from the CEO down to individual developers who have helped us improve the site and so rather loose with our partners and go all in on the Substack experiment.

David Blackmon [00:09:38] Well, I admire your loyalty. I’ve also noticed that in addition to leaving Twitter, some of the bigger Substack users have left Substack to go on to other places, which displays kind of a lack of loyalty, in my view, to the platform that kind of allowed them to build their business in the first place.

David Blackmon [00:09:56] So I admire that. I’m glad to know you’re an Equity Investor there because it gives me confidence that Substack will remain an independent kind of platform that’s, you know, continues to fight for free speech and free expression on the platform. So I really Appreciate that.

Doomberg [00:10:15] We think people who leave are relatively short-sighted, not just for loyalty reasons. Substack fee, as you know, it’s widely known as 10%. Most people think of that fee as being merely the cost of the back office, and there’s no doubt that we could build a website and manage logins and credit cards for far less than 10% of sure what we’re generating on that platform.

Doomberg [00:10:39] But actually that 10% also covers a fair bit of your marketing budget because of the referral program that they have probably well north of 10 million emails in the ecosystem. Many of these people have their credit cards on file with Substack, which makes it very easy for them to buy your product.

Doomberg [00:10:59] You know, this is part of we’ve described how we built Doomberg in various other settings using a five pillars approach, and the channel is one of those five pillars of any business and we have decided that Substack will be our channel.

Doomberg [00:11:09] And look, as you say, when we started subsequent zero emails and we’ve worked with them and listened to some of their advice and convinced them that some of the advice we’re giving authors is perhaps suboptimal and ran their own business and they’ve always been helpful and responsive.

Doomberg [00:11:24] And we’ve, we’ve created this together and they’ve done nothing that would cause us to consider leaving until we have an offer to be purchased and join other platforms. And we’ve said no to all of those.

Doomberg [00:11:38] We wrote a piece, one of the works with My Life pieces where we talked about the disease of more. And when you have way more than enough and the pursuit of more for the sake of it is a disease and that looks what we’d like more of course we’d like to double our business from here certainly. Is there a price that we would sell Doomberg? Of course. It’s a lot higher than anybody out there would be willing to pay but there is a number everybody has a number.

David Blackmon [00:12:02] Sure.

Doomberg [00:12:03] But, you know, if you think about our lives, we get to get up we hold no meetings. My only scheduled meetings are Podcasts that’s one of our rules. We write 6 to 8 pieces a month. In so doing, we learn an enormous amount we meet brilliant people. We interact with our subscribers who have voted with their wallets that they would like us to keep doing this.

Doomberg [00:12:25] And we get to attack each day, as Jim Harbaugh would say, with the U.S. as some unknown to mankind. Like I get up and saber every day. Having said this I get this is a way to say it, David and I know we’re kind of going long on this topic, but.

David Blackmon [00:12:38] Oh, it’s fine. This is fun. This is the main one I want to cover.

Doomberg [00:12:41] It is worth saying. When we first started Doomberg, you said, what is your wildest dream of possible success? Like pick a crazy number without telling you what that number is, We’re sitting at roughly three times that number today.

Doomberg [00:12:57] Now, let me ask you something, what would most people do? They would redefine what their wildest dreams are. Why would we want to do that? So if we leave Twitter and we lose half our business, well, that’s still well north of our wildest dreams.

David Blackmon [00:13:09] Yeah.

Doomberg [00:13:10] And, you know, the point of life isn’t to accumulate a bunch of digits on a screen and then die without having experienced the benefit of having accumulated them. The point of life is to live each day doing as much as you can that you love to do and as little as you can that you don’t like to do. We actually have a phrase for this. It’s called What does our get to have to ratio?

Doomberg [00:13:31] What are the things we’re doing during the day that we would consider get-to’s and what are the things that we do during our day that we would consider have-to’s and how do we make that number bigger?

Doomberg [00:13:40] And I get to be a guest on your Podcast today, this is fantastic. I’m always happy to talk about Energy and Life and Business with brilliant people. And today is also edit Day I turned in the latest piece, which is a fun one, tentatively titled Warehouse Wars, where we talk about how the humble warehouse is going to become the new natural gas pipeline in the eyes of environmentalists and they going to attack that open source of vulnerability in our economy.

Doomberg [00:14:04] What a great piece to write we did a lot of research, excited to publish it. Know what’s wrong with my day? Why do I need to go and focus on whether or not we’re growing at 5% or 15%? It’s just you have to have humility in life. You have to. We’re just so blessed. And if you can’t savor. Achieving multiple times your wildest dreams. Then what can you say?

David Blackmon [00:14:30] You’re right. You’re never going to be satisfied.

Doomberg [00:14:32] Yeah, it’s a disease. And we refuse to suffer from that disease.

David Blackmon [00:14:37] Yeah, exactly. I that’s the attitude I’ve had about all this myself. I’ve been a lot less successful than you guys have, but it’s the same attitude. So let’s talk about Energy, you know I couldn’t help noticing at the bottom of the emails we exchanged Every one of your emails you have the motto “Energy is Life”, which I agree with, but I wonder what you mean when you say energy is life. What does that mean to you?

Doomberg [00:15:03] You know, from a biophysical perspective, all living organisms are energy harvesters, and our standard of living as humans is quite literally defined by how much energy we get to harvest and actually waste. And I don’t mean waste in a sort of flippant way, I mean waste and a thermodynamic way.

Doomberg [00:15:21] The human endeavor is a constant, unrelenting struggle against the forces of entropy. In order to impose order on your local environment, you must waste heat. Right angles don’t spontaneously appear in nature and your home, your castle all of these things require energy to maintain, as you well know.

Doomberg [00:15:43] And so. Quite literally our friend Nate Higgins defined this as, you know, Society’s Net Energy Production, the amount of energy made available to humans to do useful work net of the amount of energy that goes in to produce that energy defines the integral of our collective standard of living. And then there are the societal questions about how that is distributed, equitably or not, across the humans on the planet.

Doomberg [00:16:11] But the more energy you personally get to leverage and harvest, the higher your standard of living. And since all humans everywhere want a higher standard of living. The phrase Energy is Life we can see that phrase and have popularized because it does crystallize that energy is not just another commodity. Energy is the master economy, the master commodity as our friend, the Grumman likes to call it. And once we understand that, then it really brings to focus the criticality of getting our national and even international energy policies correct.

David Blackmon [00:16:50] Yeah, well, one of them brings me to another subject, a related subject is that something I’ve written about several times recently, and that is this emerging narrative of the Energy Transition that has previously told us, well, you know, we’re just going to replace all these high-density sources of Energy like Oil and Gas and Nuclear with all these low-density sources, Wind and Solar, Electric Vehicles.

David Blackmon [00:17:18] And everything’s going to be sweetness and light and it’s all going to be smooth and your lifestyle is going to have to change that’s the previous narrative before this year. This year, at least what I’ve seen and I wonder if you agree. We’ve seen the emergence now of a narrative that’s always been in the background, and that is to make this transition work. You, everybody else, you’re all going to have to lower your standard of living and consume less energy to make this all work, right? I mean, do you see that becoming as prevalent as I do now in the messaging coming out of these activist groups pushing the transition?

Doomberg [00:17:54] Oh, there’s no question. And in fact, this is just physics, you know, reimposing itself to reality. It was always going to be the case that in order to manage our Carbon Emissions, which is just a proxy for how much energy you use, given that we’re still a carbon-based Economy.

Doomberg [00:18:14] In order for that to happen, we would have to impose a lower standard of living and then in order for that to happen, you need dictatorial forms of government because no free-thinking people, no democratic society, is going to spontaneously decide to self immolate.

Doomberg [00:18:29] And so we wrote a piece on this exact topic in June called Green is the New Red. And we talked about this amazing conference called Beyond Growth.

David Blackmon [00:18:40] Yeah.

Doomberg [00:18:40] And it’s not like this was some you know.

David Blackmon [00:18:43] I that was the one sponsored by the EU, right?

Doomberg [00:18:46] It was held in the European Union Parliament and none other than the president of the European Union gave the opening keynote. And there are 18 hours of this word salad available for you to consume on the Internet I don’t recommend people do it because I doubt you’d get past 18 minutes of it.

Doomberg [00:19:04] We tried, but the plenary, you know, these growth, these focus panels were just amazing.

David Blackmon [00:19:11] Yeah.

Doomberg [00:19:11] When you go through it and one of our favorite ones, you know was how can you know, how can we unlock a just and sustainable economy through universal basic services. And then the next one was cutting the addiction of labor to growth the four days per week.

Doomberg [00:19:28] And then the final one, which was after listening to those two, one wonders how they can’t see the irony in this from the welfare state to the socio-ecological state, how to organize and finance welfare without growth. Like. Great question, guys. Yeah, I mean, good luck with it. It’s just absurd.

David Blackmon [00:19:46] Yeah.

Doomberg [00:19:46] And, so Green is the New Red. The red part of this is that the common people will not be allowed to resist. And, so in order for us in the West to proactively grow, they will have to maintain a dictatorial authoritarian type approach, which, we don’t think is sustainable. But even if we did, if we did free up all of this energy, the, the, the Global South would really consume it posthaste.

David Blackmon [00:20:20] Right.

Doomberg [00:20:21] We’ve developed something called Doomberg’s postulate movie where we basically said, and I think we’re right on this, that Every Molecule of Fossil Fuels produced in the world will be burned by somebody somewhere, and local restrictions on their use merely shift who gets the privilege of doing so. This is why we’re seeing record demand for coal globally. This is why we’re seeing record demand for natural gas globally and why we’re seeing record demand for oil.

David Blackmon [00:20:47] And for wood. I mean, we’re buying more wood than we ever.

Doomberg [00:20:50] Burn, right? Well, that’s because Europe has an artifact of their carbon accounting as if you could land biomass, which is clear-cut from the US Southeast, and burn it in a giant furnace in the UK. Somehow this is emission-free, which is one of the greatest farces.

Doomberg [00:21:07] But to your original question, the big lie that has been told until this year is that we could do this transition with minimal changes to our standard of living. That was always the big lie. That was always the sleight of hand.

Doomberg [00:21:20] And as. Evidence. You know, the evidence, which was always going to appear that this was, in fact, a big lie. We’re now seeing that narrative shift. And we suspect this is the beginning of the end of our myopic focus on ESG.

Doomberg [00:21:33] And we can go ahead and tackle some bigger problems like pollution control, income inequality, you know, infrastructure issues here in the West, in particular, our system of government. You know, Neil Howe in his new book, The Fourth Turning has arrived. Where the fourth turning is here, I forget the exact title is a follow-up to the really remarkable book published more than 20 years ago now, this is the time this nonsense can’t go on forever. And one of the things that we say is that which can’t go on forever usually doesn’t.

David Blackmon [00:22:02] And so if it can’t go on forever and yet its advocates want to maintain it. And they can only maintain it through an authoritarian government. What? What does that say in terms of a threat to our system of free and fair elections in the United States and in Europe? In your opinion?

Doomberg [00:22:21] It doesn’t bode well. You know, they’re not going to go out quietly they do believe that political upheaval is the path out of this swamp that we’re in. And we hope that it’s peaceful, but it doesn’t need to be. And history shows it often isn’t.

Doomberg [00:22:39] And we have said, you know, on the path from abundance to starvation is a riot and the people will riot. And if you just look, we’re already beginning to see in Germany, for example, the rise of what the establishment would call far right-wing political parties, much to their horror.

Doomberg [00:22:58] And the more they try to disqualify this party, the AFD Alternative for Deutschlander known as the English language alternative for Germany. The more they try to tar and feather them out of the political discourse, we believe the strikes in effect will kick in and more and more disenfranchised people in Germany will flock to that party as a form of expressing their disgust and disdain for the ruling elite that got them into this equation.

Doomberg [00:23:24] And one of the things we find amazing is even the reporting on all of this, this sort of reactionary right-wing rise of right-wing parties in Germany, it is reported as though they are just leveraging discontent and economic malaise, as though that discontent and malaise just spontaneously appeared it had nothing to do with the policies that are being implemented. to complete the deindustrialization of the once powerful German Manufacturing Sector.

Doomberg [00:23:51] The proactive shutting down of perfectly usable some of the world’s best nuclear power plants, and then heading.  Full speed ahead into an energy crisis and escaping the worst aspects of the winter of last year. And that’s stupidly confusing. Good luck with sound strategy as they seem intent on doing.

Doomberg [00:24:11] So we are one cold snap away from a real mess over there and let’s hope it doesn’t happen. But if it does, I could tell you that the popularity of AFD is going to go up, not down. And so let’s hope it’s peaceful.

Doomberg [00:24:24] If the progressive left decides that the leaders should have no say in how they are governed, we shall see. History is filled with regimes expressing such arrogance of being overthrown and in unfortunately violent ways as well. And I wouldn’t rule that out. I wouldn’t rule out a major Western country. Look, what we’re seeing in France.

David Blackmon [00:24:48] Right now.

Doomberg [00:24:48] You know, I wouldn’t I wouldn’t rule it out. I’m not hoping for it. In fact, we’re trying our best to advocate for policies that would get ahead of such circumstances and developments in a way that allows us to get to the right answer, which is everyone knows, by the way, there is no path to meaningful decarbonization that does not run straight through the heart of nuclear power. It is the highest energy density form that we have available to us, and the countries that are exporting it are doing just fine, and the ones that aren’t are struggling. It’s just that’s a.

David Blackmon [00:25:17] Yeah, it really is that simple. I wish I was asked the question the other day if I see a peaceful way out of this and did some research. And it’s hard historically to find examples of totalitarian left-leftist totalitarian regimes giving up power peacefully. It has happened in the past, but it hasn’t happened often. And so at least a look back through history isn’t encouraging in that regard. I would love to be wrong about all that, but I don’t think I am.

David Blackmon [00:25:51] Let’s talk about before we’ve got 5 minutes left so let’s talk about I want to talk to you about BRICS. I know you wrote a story about BRICS and the possibility for Gold Backed Currency backed by the Bricks Alliance, which I see as a real emergence, not just me everybody sees this as an emerging power on the Global stage. And I wonder what you see potentially coming out of that group summit meeting later this month.

Doomberg [00:26:19] We would fade. Goldberg’s enthusiasm around the prospects of anything meaningful coming from that summit, unfortunately. You know, we wrote a piece called Something or Nothing where quite unusually for us, we canvased five experts for their opinions and they all agreed to participate. And then we sort of wrapped them into a narrative and then concluded the piece by saying where we fall on them on the matter.

Doomberg [00:26:42] And and for us, I should be clear, like our investment philosophy has three likes, we earn money in fiat, we save by buying real assets like land and gold collectibles. And then we tend to speculate or invest in the private markets where we can affect the outcome. And so for us, gold is not a speculation medium it is a way for us to save excess earnings ahead of any potential investments we might want to make.

Doomberg [00:27:08] And so the actual price of gold, as measured in U.S. dollars, is pretty irrelevant to us. We measure our gold holdings in ounces not in Dollars. And so in that context, you know, a careful reading of what those five experts submitted to us and our own analysis actually finds little that people disagree on. This place in the US dollar will be hard and take longer than many think.

Doomberg [00:27:32] Lots of countries would like to do so and the seizing of Russia’s assets has only increased the motivation for them to try, as we’re seeing in fits and starts with the BRICS countries and the ultimate impact on the price of gold and oil and the value of the US dollar compared to other currencies. In the unlikely event that such an effort succeeds it is just incredibly difficult and challenging to model.

Doomberg [00:27:55] And so one of our bedrock philosophies on life is when in doubt do nothing and so aside from keeping a watchful eye on these developments to satisfy our own intellectual curiosity or perhaps to write a follow-up piece after the conference is over, that’s certainly what we intend to do, our allocation to gold is unchanged.

Doomberg [00:28:14] And by the way, if we wake up tomorrow and the price of gold has suddenly popped to $5,000 an ounce or $10,000 an ounce, I can assure everybody listening to that is not something to celebrate.

David Blackmon [00:28:25] Yeah.

Doomberg [00:28:27] You don’t want your hedges and your insurance policies to pay off. Last I checked, I’m happy each year that my house doesn’t burn down and I still happily pay my insurance policies. And so I would much prefer a world where we get sane about our energy and fiscal policies and the wealth that we create can be preserved through a currency that is stable and not being debased at the pace at which it is today.

Doomberg [00:28:51] And there’s no amount of gold or land or collectibles that one can acquire to insulate themselves from all of the negative shocks of a total societal breakdown, which is what such a repricing of gold but ultimately signals.

Doomberg [00:29:04] And so we are more than happy for the world to stay relatively stable and gold to stay about its current price because that means the rest of the system is operating in a more stable way, which is what we should all be cheering for.

David Blackmon [00:29:18] We’re seeing reports that as many as 15 countries, even more than that, have applied for at least some level of membership in BRICS. I don’t know if you have any information on that other than what’s in the public domain. I wonder if you think they’ll be adding members at this summit meeting.

Doomberg [00:29:35] I mean, I should say upfront, we have no particular expertise to add that would give us information Alpha, over what we read in the newspaper, like you and the listeners to this Podcast.

Doomberg [00:29:44] If you pushed me, I would say they would probably begin to add new members, although how that would work in the internal mechanics and power play with the existing countries is it’s kind of difficult. You know, we like to think of things like BRICS and OPEC and OPEC+ as unified entities that have a singular purpose and execute with a disciplined strategy that’s rarely the case.

Doomberg [00:30:08] And so we shall see we are interested observers like everybody else. I mean, if you ask me about the nuances of various energy markets or commodities and how they interplay with each other, we feel far more confident giving a more definitive opinion. And one of the things that I think our subscribers enjoy about our work is that when we don’t have particular expertise to add, we try not to pretend as we do.

David Blackmon [00:30:29] Yeah, Yeah. It’s always it’s important to always know when to say, I don’t know. So that was one of the best lessons in life I was ever taught by a defense attorney. So I have never had the Experience of Interviewing a Cartoon Character before today.

David Blackmon [00:30:50] I really appreciate this and I have to say that the people behind the Cartoon Character are obviously incredibly astute I really appreciate your work product and wish you the best of luck going forward. And I didn’t get to several of the Questions I wanted to ask, and maybe we can do this again sometime in the future.

Doomberg [00:31:06] Absolutely. My pleasure, David. It was far too long for this conversation to have occurred. And let’s not let the gap between this and the next one stretch any longer than it needs to.

David Blackmon [00:31:17] I’ll make a point of that. Thank you very much, I hope you have a great week.

Doomberg [00:31:21] You too, sir.

David Blackmon [00:31:22] And thanks to the Sandstone Group for hosting our Podcast to the U.S. Oil and Gas Association for being our Sponsor really appreciate you guys. And to our Extraordinary Producer, Eric Parel. I’m David Blackmon and that is all for today.

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