The Energy Question Episode 55: Texas Congressman August Pfluger

 

David Blackmon [00:00:05] Hey, Welcome to the Energy Question with David Blackmon. I’m your host, David Blackmon, and boy, do I have a special guest today, Congressman August Pfluger, a representative of the 20th Congressional District, I believe, at West Texas, based in San Angelo. Congressman, how are you today?

Congressman August Pfluger [00:00:23] I’m doing great and it’s I do have 20 counties it’s the 11th Congressional District I’ve spent a lot of time in Texas so I appreciate you having me.

David Blackmon [00:00:34] Yeah. In fact, talking about your district, people should go look at the map of the 11th District. It is huge. You’re based in San Angelo it goes all the way almost to the border with New Mexico that’s probably 150 miles.

David Blackmon [00:00:51] And then to the east, they had to go all the way to Killeen, I guess, to get enough population in your district to reach the congressional threshold. So it’s not the biggest geographical district in Texas, but it’s certainly among the biggest in.

Congressman August Pfluger [00:01:08] It is it’s a great district and we do some amazing things but I always tell people that those 20 counties and you’re right, they go from Odessa all the way through Midland and San Angelo include Brownwood and L.A., all the way to claim. But those 20 counties are doing national security level protections for our country and I’ll just highlight them real quickly.

David Blackmon [00:01:29] Yeah,.

Congressman August Pfluger [00:01:29] We’ve got Goodfellow Air Force Base that trains 14,000 intelligence professionals every single year, Air Force, Army, Navy, Marines, Space Force, And those people are out protecting our country everywhere. In fact, in the last 50 or 60 years, that base has trained 350,000 soldiers, sailors, you know, military professionals it’s incredible the national security work that a good fellow in San Angelo, Texas, does.

Congressman August Pfluger [00:02:00] Then we have agriculture, a tremendous amount of cotton and cattle, sheep and goats, other agricultural products like wheat that are feeding our country and making sure that we don’t have to be dependent on other countries for our food sources.

Congressman August Pfluger [00:02:14] And lastly, and I know this is what we’re going to get to today, but we are the epicenter for American energy production. We represent five and a half million barrels a day in the Permian Basin, and I don’t have the entire Permian Basin, but I represent the epicenter of it in Midland Odesa when you think about that, that’s 43% of the total U.S. production. And so it really is an incredible amount of energy production that’s affordable, it’s reliable, it’s secure.

Congressman August Pfluger [00:02:46] But I also tell people it’s not just hydrocarbons, and we’re very proud of the hydrocarbons and the innovation, and I’m sure we’ll get into those details. But we also have more wind energy than the entire state of California. And we’ve got solar energy and we just do energy we know energy the 11th Congressional District is the epicenter of energy production in this country.

David Blackmon [00:03:11] Yeah, it really is and it’s just extraordinary what’s happened there in the last dozen years or so since, you know I guess the the Wolfcamp. I believe I might have been the first formation that people started producing from out there but there are half a dozen major oil and natural gas-producing formations and people many people are not aware of it.

David Blackmon [00:03:34] But in addition to all the crude oil that comes out of West Texas, I mean, it’s also the second biggest natural gas producing basin in the country and has been for quite a while now so it’s just an enormous resource. And, you know, as you said, your district is a very diverse one in terms of what’s happening out there in the business world.

David Blackmon [00:03:57] And that gets us to this announcement in early July from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service under great pressure from a handful of radical anti-development groups, as I like to call them Center for Biological Diversity, Wild Earth Guardians, and a couple of others announced it was going to or announced a proposed listing of the Dune Sagebrush Lizard, which has been a point of controversy for 20 years now under the Endangered Species Act, and not as a threatened species, but as an endangered species.

David Blackmon [00:04:34] And in response to that, you just a day before we’re recording this on July 14, introduced a piece of legislation called the Lizard Act, which I want to be sure people see this. Lizard stands for Limiting Incredulous Zealots against Redistricting Restricting Drilling Lizard Act. Talk about what your bill would do, Congressman.

Congressman August Pfluger [00:05:02] Well, it does have some levity in the name, and that’s not lost on us but, you know, you mentioned it correctly. I mean, the Fish and Wildlife Service, along with the EPA, along with the Department of Energy, along with so many other regulatory agencies and executive branch agencies in the Biden administration, have really weaponized against the American people. There’s no other way to look at it.

David Blackmon [00:05:28] Yeah,.

Congressman August Pfluger [00:05:29] If you care about conservation, if you care about the land, if you care about this country and leaving it better than you found it, then you’re going to have conversations and a common sense approach that brings in the state and local level. And the administration doesn’t period that they do not.

Congressman August Pfluger [00:05:47] I can’t tell you how many people how many members of this administration have been in front of the Committee on Energy and Commerce, which I sit on and am proud to sit on and represent the Permian Basin and also producers everywhere. But I cannot tell you how many of those people don’t know what’s going on in the most prolific production area in our country. They’ve never been there they haven’t visited they don’t talk to the local and the state level who are the experts.

Congressman August Pfluger [00:06:14] And unfortunately, we are here where they have listed the species and it just happens to be listed. And all the areas where we are providing a product to the American people that would lower all prices, it would lower inflation in this country, specifically starting with gas and groceries and electrical bills and all the consumer products that we have and they are literally declaring war, as they have many other times and many other areas on the production of fossil fuels.

Congressman August Pfluger [00:06:46] And there is no endgame for them that makes any sense there’s no common sense approach to this. I wonder if these people that listed this even know what this lizard is. They probably have never, never even paid enough attention to it to know what the numbers are, where they are, and whether they’re flourishing or not.

Congressman August Pfluger [00:07:07] But their claim is that the production of hydrocarbons in these areas in the Permian Basin is preventing the species from flourishing. And my very first question is, well, how about the humans that live in this country? Are we flourishing? And the answer is that the Biden administration has raised the cost of living for every single American. And that’s my primary concern, is making sure that Americans are taken care of.

David Blackmon [00:07:36] Well. And you. You hit it on the nail this is a war on the oil and gas industry there’s really no doubt about it. The industry has been working cooperatively, not just the oil and gas industry, but a diversity of businesses.

David Blackmon [00:07:51] Enterprises have been working in cooperation with the state and the federal government on a conservation plan for this lizard since I believe, 2011, if I have the date right. And it’s been a pretty successful conservation program, hasn’t it?

Congressman August Pfluger [00:08:09] Well, it has and there are experts, you know, at the local and state level who have been following this for a long time and can show that data and provide the facts. But this is what the administration is ignoring when they overreach and step out and do this it’s just one more tool that they have been willing to use against the industry.

Congressman August Pfluger [00:08:32] But you’re right, the programs have been successful and nobody knows this better than people like Ben Shephard with the Petroleum Association and others who were there. The administration is listening to those people they’re not there in fact, they’re not listening to anybody and they’re definitely not listening to the American populace.

David Blackmon [00:08:52] Yeah, and a good friend of mine, I’ve known him for many years he does great work out there with PBBA. When I read this listing proposal, it appears to me that I could be wrong, I guess, but I think I’m right about this. Their rationale for this listing is based solely on two things diminishing habitat argument. And which is something the Center for Biological Diversity historically has, you know, made a living. I mean, it’s a conflict group and it does its fundraising off of trying to force listings under the diminishing habitat argument.

David Blackmon [00:09:28] And then the other piece of it, the other argument they’re making is climate change has somehow put this Pacific lizard in danger. Is that their second piece of this? I mean, the first piece we all know about, that second piece, climate change, as a rationale for this specific species isn’t that really a power grab on the part of Fish and Wildlife? Because if you can say I mean, it seems to me, if you can say this lizard is endangered by climate change, you could make that argument about pretty much any animal species you want to target, right?

Congressman August Pfluger [00:10:08] David. Unfortunately, it’s much more. The impact is much greater than just species. And yes, you can’t they will be able to if they set the precedent with this and they list climate change as the reason for this lizard and are able to successfully get this thing listed and fully implement their plans, well, then they’ll be able to do it for any species, any animal. But it’s far more detrimental than that. The administration has claimed that climate change is responsible for every bad thing in our country.

David Blackmon [00:10:46] Right.

Congressman August Pfluger [00:10:47] And I’ll give you an example. I mean, Homeland Security Secretary, my orcas came before the Homeland Security Committee and said blamed the crisis at our southern border on climate change. And we just passed the National Defense Authorization Act today and one of the very last amendments that we were able to have a ton of support for was preventing the Biden administration from using climate change as an emergency or using it in a way that would be detrimental to our military.

Congressman August Pfluger [00:11:20] The Securities and Exchange Commission uses climate change to implement new rules. This goes on and on and on. But at the very top, at the White House level, President Biden wants to declare a climate change emergency in order to use executive authority to overreach into Americans’ lives in every aspect.

Congressman August Pfluger [00:11:42] And that would include telling you that you can’t have a gas stove in your home, that you have to drive an electric vehicle, that the tailpipe emissions in California would be the gold standard, and that the U.S. would adopt those throughout the 50 states the list goes on and on and on they are overreaching in such an incredulous way, which is why we have to introduce the Lizard Act to bring some reality back to these people that we are doing the right things to take care of a growing population, 330 million people and growing every day and to take care of the earth at the same time. And this administration has no clue how to do either one of those.

David Blackmon [00:12:28] And it’s coming from so many directions now and this is just an aside, I don’t want to sidetrack our interview, but I found out this week and wrote about this week a proposed regulation by the Pentagon that would on on on considering the climate in its procurement process that would put a newly formed NGO funded by several left-wing foundations here in the U.S., including the Rockefeller Brothers Foundation in charge.

David Blackmon [00:13:03] It would give this NGO, which is based in London, England. Veto power over Pentagon procurement processes for military contractors. And so so we’re going so we’re getting so extreme in this that we’re even forming a lot of these decisions out to NGOs that aren’t even based in the United States. How can Congress possibly keep track of all these crazy things and respond to them? But effectively, it has to be an amazingly difficult job to try to monitor all that, isn’t it?

Congressman August Pfluger [00:13:44] Well, it is. And that’s incredible. And, you know, you can look at that as a perfect example of the type and the willingness of this administration to weaponize everything and to really control everything.

Congressman August Pfluger [00:13:58] And at the end of the day, this is about control. And so, you know, that’s a great example. I’m very thankful for the Supreme Court taking on West Virginia versus the EPA, taking on the U.S., and looking at the Chevron deference case, because the checks and balances are so out of balance right now that we have to get back to where the legislative branch controls the power of the purse, where we rein back in the spending that goes on and the amount of money that would go to these radical groups.

Congressman August Pfluger [00:14:31] And that we would get this thing back in balance so that we can’t have oversight and obviously if an NGO in England is having a final say on the procurement of weapons systems for our Pentagon, there’s no way to do oversight there. So they end up as a great example of the overreach this administration is willing to do.

David Blackmon [00:14:52] Yeah. And so back to the lizard, though I’ve been talking to several folks out there, and it’s my understanding that, you know, so much of the focus related to this listing is based on its potential impacts on the oil and gas upstream part of the business but it’s also could have a pretty major impact on the frac sand business out there in West Texas, couldn’t it?

Congressman August Pfluger [00:15:19] Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think you look at any piece and any part of the industry, whether it’s exploration and production or midstream or refining or, you know, any of the pieces that are in that area. And they’re obviously going to be impacted in the frac sand business.

Congressman August Pfluger [00:15:38] I mean, but let’s broaden it out just a little bit here so that we don’t just focus on energy, which is my favorite topic. Right. But think about building a new road. We have several new interstates that are going to come through the Permian Basin I 27 and 14. How are they going to get permits to build those highways and extend those highways if they go through areas where this lizard is?

Congressman August Pfluger [00:16:01] I mean, we’re talking about billions of dollars of impact here and I am worried in this in this country about getting into a truly socialist society, which we are so close. This administration wants to push us there every single day. And they’re doing a pretty good job of being socialist every day, by the way.

Congressman August Pfluger [00:16:21] But, yeah, we’re not going to be able to build anything in this country because you can’t permit. That’s why earlier this year when we had we passed legislation that reformed the EPA’s permitting process, and narrowed the scope of the number of pages that are written, an application narrowed the timeline instead of 8 to 10 years now we do 1 to 2 years, narrowed the number of agencies that you have to deal with.

Congressman August Pfluger [00:16:45] This country is great because we have built things we have built things rapidly, we have innovated and things like the radical groups that you mentioned and those those organizations, they are truly stifling it. Yes. And energy, but also in every other aspect of our economy.

David Blackmon [00:17:03] Yeah. I mean, it really impacts any project that potentially turns dirt, right? I mean, you have to use a bulldozer to level the ground. I mean, it’s pretty much any kind of human endeavor like that. So the yeah, the potential impacts are just enormous. I you know,.

David Blackmon [00:17:24] I’ll be honest with you, I’ve been a fan. I’m a fan of the Endangered Species Act, as it was originally intended, as a vehicle to protect truly endangered animal species that we would all recognize.

David Blackmon [00:17:40] Well, one of my earliest memories in life is actually visiting the Aransas Wildlife Refuge down near Refugio, Texas, and having the guide point to 27 big white birds out there in the distance and tell us that’s the whole population of whooping cranes left on Earth. Right. And that has stuck with me all these years.

David Blackmon [00:18:02] While the ESA played a big role in saving that species from actual extinction and the grizzly bear and the bald eagle. And you can go through a lot of different species that were truly endangered that it has been pretty effective at protecting.

David Blackmon [00:18:21] But that was the original intent of this law and you mentioned the Chevron deference principle that the Supreme Court will rule on next probably early next year. That has been a tool that’s been used to dramatically expand the reach of this act, hasn’t it? And this lizard listing really is not really consistent with what I’m trying to get to. Is this lizard listing consistent with the congressional intent when it actually passed the Endangered Species Act?

Congressman August Pfluger [00:18:54] No, it’s not. And you bring up a great example, one that I wasn’t as familiar with on the coastline of Texas, but, you know, as written and with common sense, the federal level of government can work with local and state partners and come up with good solutions on how to manage the land.

Congressman August Pfluger [00:19:14] And, you know, look, I grew up on a ranch, and some generation Texans, we take care of the land. We take care of the species that are on the land as well. There’s a management program that works very well for white-tailed deer, for other animals that are, you know, in our lands in Texas. And those programs have been successful.

Congressman August Pfluger [00:19:34] But the Chevron deference case is so important because what we have seen from every federal agency is overreach. They take the text and the legislative text that Congress writes and they say, well, we think you met this, and then they keep overreaching.

Congressman August Pfluger [00:19:51] And, you know, unfortunately, we’ve got to rein that back in. The REINS Act is another very good piece of legislation that says if the executive branch through executive order does something that costs the American taxpayers more than $100 million, which is a lot of money if it costs more than $100 million, they have to get congressional approval.

Congressman August Pfluger [00:20:15] That is another way of saying in the Chevron deference case that unless it’s written and unless the text explicitly says it, then you can’t just go interpret and do something outside of the bounds of what Congress, who has the power of the purse, has said.

Congressman August Pfluger [00:20:31] So, no, the lizard was not done with the right intent of the Endangered Species Act we’re going to have to pull the reins back on this one and stop them from weaponizing against an industry that they’ve declared war on openly.

David Blackmon [00:20:47] Yeah, And speaking of that, you know, this isn’t the only threat to the Permian Basin that this administration has presented. You know, last year there were rumors flying around that EPA was about to issue a ruling holding the entire Permian Basin and not attainment of ozone standards. Have we heard anything recently, any more news about that potential EPA decision?

Congressman August Pfluger [00:21:18] Well, unfortunately, we have. And you’re right. You know, last summer the EPA’s website listed, the notion that the Permian Basin was going to be looked at for being in a not attainment status for ozone. So by about November or December, after we raised the alarm bells, the EPA had taken that off of their documents and their sourcing.

Congressman August Pfluger [00:21:44] And we thought, okay, maybe we’ve gotten back to a good place. No facts have been given to anyone. No coordination had been done with the state of Texas. Who is responsible for implementing the plans if that were to happen? And this isn’t the first time they’ve done it in El Paso. They’ve done it in Dallas Fort Worth they’ve done it in places like San Antonio.

Congressman August Pfluger [00:22:04] But what’s different is that now the spring, late spring, early summer, we once again saw this come back up on the EPA’s website. And so while Administrator Regan was in front of our committee, the Energy and Commerce Committee, this is the EPA director, I pointedly asked him the question, Are you considering making the Permian Basin, Permian Basin Anonymous, you know, designating it in a nod attainment status? And he said I haven’t heard that.

Congressman August Pfluger [00:22:33] And I said, Well, you might want to check your own website. And I said, I have asked six times to meet with your region, six director Director Nance, who every single time has gone unanswered. Those requests have gone unanswered.

Congressman August Pfluger [00:22:48] So we were able to get finally get a meeting with the EPA Region six director, where they did tell us that they are looking at making the suit on a. So the Permian Basin is thousands of square miles. It’s a huge area, David they have two ground monitors that they are relying on and both of those ground monitors are on the New Mexico side of the Permian Basin, completely ignoring all of the thousands of square miles of Texas Permian Basin lands.

Congressman August Pfluger [00:23:21] And so automatically within one minute of this conversation, I could pick apart their science and their data for trying to push an agenda. So, unfortunately, this is yet another example of weaponization. We’re pushing back on it. I’ve had a call with the governor. We’re working very. Closely with some of the state representatives, Brooks Lang Graff, and others to push back on the EPA and to really push back on their overreach.

David Blackmon [00:23:53] Well, back to back to the Lizard Act. Where do we go from here? What are the next steps, whether you’ve introduced it? And, you know, obviously, the first order of business is probably a congressional hearing, correct?

Congressman August Pfluger [00:24:08] That. That’s right. And next week I’ll actually participate with the Natural Resources Committee in questioning the Fish and Wildlife Services. And so we’re going to get the facts out there on, you know, the data. Tell us why. Tell us the work you’ve done and we’ll get that information. But this is really larger than the Lizard Act this is the overreach that we see from the administration.

Congressman August Pfluger [00:24:30] And by the way, it’s not just on, you know, the subject. We know the subject and it impacts my district and it impacts national security at the end of the day in our economy. But Congress is working very hard and I’ll tell you, we have a rule this Congress that says that we can basically line-item veto specific positions within executive branch agencies that if they are not doing the job that Congress has funded them to do, that we can specifically line item those jobs.

Congressman August Pfluger [00:25:03] We’re going to be looking very closely in the appropriations process at those types of jobs within EPA, within Fish and Wildlife Services, within all these agencies to see if there is abuse or if there is an overreach that is impacting our economy and our national security.

Congressman August Pfluger [00:25:22] So, yes, we will have legislation like the Lizard Act. Yes, we will have congressional hearings. Yes, we will move forward with other legislation to rein them in. But I’m telling you, we are also looking at the funding of these positions that are weaponized against the American people, not doing the job that the taxpayer is asking them to do.

David Blackmon [00:25:43] Yeah, And that’s the real power Congress has with these agencies the budget oversight process. So.

Congressman August Pfluger [00:25:51] That’s right.

David Blackmon [00:25:51] That’s that’s the way to go at it and obviously and I really appreciate the job you’re doing and focusing on that aspect of it. Anything else you would like our audience to know before we wrap this up? I know we’re running up against time here.

Congressman August Pfluger [00:26:07] Well, I appreciate the opportunity to talk about this. And, you know, this is one of those subjects here where I think my request from industry, from experts, from people who are in the business of energy is we have to get the message out in a better way we have to be proactive on talking about the benefits of hydrocarbons.

Congressman August Pfluger [00:26:32] For example, the shale revolution, which started, you know, around 2010, 2011 and has lasted the last ten-plus years, has done some amazing things for our world. It has helped lift a billion people out of poverty. It has given access to energy sources in places like India, where in just a few short years, the life and just quality of life have been extended and increased.

Congressman August Pfluger [00:27:04] Life expectancy has increased 40 to 50% of people in places like India now have access to energy, clean sources of energy where they didn’t have access to them. And when you look at the number of deaths in the past 20 to 30 years that were caused by smoke inhalation due to having to burn wood in your home or in some places even dung.

Congressman August Pfluger [00:27:28] Now that has been transferred to clean energy sources like liquid propane or liquefied natural gas. And now their quality of life has increased. So we have to do a better job of talking about that and getting that message out and to me, this is a national security issue it’s plain and simple.

Congressman August Pfluger [00:27:49] If we kill this industry, which we won’t, but if the administration got its way, we would be cold, dark, and hungry, period. And we are experiencing a tremendous expansion. We’re not in a transition we’re in an expansion in the amount of electricity that we need is increasing every single day and the grids that we have are fragile already we have to use affordable and reliable sources of energy that is my mission and my charter here in Congress is to make sure that all of my colleagues know that those sources of energy, which are the best sources.

Congressman August Pfluger [00:28:30] I am no longer an all of the above advocate. I am a best of the above advocate. Give me the best sources of energy which can be different in different places. Let’s use those not against any one type, but we know the sources that work. Let’s harness those, let’s use them, and let’s make sure we take care of Americans. And we can also help our allies and partners while doing that.

David Blackmon [00:28:57] Well, thank you so much for everything you’re doing, Congressman. We’ll let you get back to your day this has been wonderful. There’s everything I can do for you just have your folks reach out to me. We’re going to stay on this Lizard story, and I may reach out again to talk to you again before it’s all over but thank you. Thank you very much.

Congressman August Pfluger [00:29:17] Thank you very much and if folks want to see more of what I’m doing and more of what my team is doing, go to Pflueger. Dot House, dot gov. You can sign up for my Pfluger flyby, which is a weekly newsletter, and we talk about energy issues with the chairman of the House Energy Action Team we bring in speakers all the time to talk about these issues. And David, thank you for helping us get this message out. It’s been a pleasure to be on the show with you.

David Blackmon [00:29:41] Thank you. It’s my pleasure and thanks, everybody, for joining us for this episode of The Energy Question. Thank you to the Sandstone group for hosting our show our extraordinary producer, Eric Parel, and our sponsor, the U.S. Oil and Gas Association. I’m David Blackmon and that’s all for now.

 

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