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In the Energy News Beat – Conversation in Energy with Stuart Turley, talks with NJ Ayuk, Executive Director of the African Energy Chamber, and Dr. Robert Brooks, Founder of RBAC, about Africa’s journey towards energy independence and economic development. The discussion covers the importance of a balanced approach to energy policies, the need to leverage Africa’s natural gas resources to reduce energy poverty, and the impact of global energy policies on Africa’s development. They also address the role of BRICs partnerships, the challenges of transitioning from fossil fuels to renewables, and the potential for the African diaspora to contribute to sustainable growth on the continent.
I thoroughly enjoyed this conversation with NJ and Robert. Both men are great leaders, and this is an important conversation about delivering low-cost, sustainable energy to everyone on the planet. NJ is leading the charge in Africa, and I highly recommend following him and the African Energy Chamber as they empower Africa.
Thank you, NJ and Robert, I really appreciate your leadership in the global energy markets. – Stu
Please follow the African Energy Chamber: https://energychamber.org/
and RBAC https://rbac.com/
Highlights of the Podcast
00:00 – Intro
02:30 – African Energy Chamber Updates
05:40 – Fossil Fuel and Energy Policies in Africa and Beyond
10:37 – Offshore vs. Onshore Oil Development in Africa
15:04 – Challenges in Energy Transition for Africa
22:20 – BRICs and Economic Cooperation for Food Security
26:44 – BRICs’ Role in Africa’s Development
28:19 – Self-Reliance and Growth Potential in Africa
36:35 – The African Diaspora’s Role in Development
42:07 – African Energy Chamber Event Announcement
43:53 – Closing Remarks
Full automated transcript:
Stuart Turley [00:00:07] Hello, everybody. Welcome to the Energy News Beat podcast. My name’s Stu Turley, president and CEO of the Sandstone Group. You know, if you listen to this podcast, you know that I care about ending energy poverty. The only way to end energy poverty is through fiscal responsibility and having the least amount of impact on the environment. And one of the hardest buttons that I have out there right now is the way that Africa is being treated around the world. And I happen to have two world energy experts here. I have NJ know he is the executive director of the African Energy Chamber and he is in South Africa today. How are you today, Angie?
NJ Ayuk [00:00:52] I’m doing amazing. Great weather, great food. We can complain about South Africa and the world.
Stuart Turley [00:00:57] And I tell you what, it was a year ago, your podcast went nuts with me and Cyrus and you. And I am just looking forward to getting an update. And now our other expert is with he is the founder and I believe chairman of RB AC and he is Dr. Robert Brooks. Welcome and thank you for stopping by the podcast, sir.
Dr. Robert Brooks [00:01:22] Well, I’m really happy to be here. Actually. The Cyrus that you were talking about happens to be my son, and I think Cyrus and MJ have had a chance to get together, so I’m really happy that I’m going to be able to substitute for Cyrus today, who had some other pressing matters and so was not able to attend here. But this is still as a topic that is extremely important to my heart. Actually, Africa is a place that while my son Cyrus has actually visited and been in currently, is in South Africa and has been there several times and spent quite a bit of time there and is familiar with much of what goes on in Jo’burg, including the food that you were talking about. And he tells me it’s great, but I have not had that opportunity. I’ve been to different parts of the world. I’ve been to China, I’ve been to Central Asia, I’ve been all over Europe and and of course, all over the United States, which is a lot by itself. But I’m hoping actually to to visit areas, whether it’s South Africa or other parts of Africa, you know, sometime in this lifetime.
Stuart Turley [00:02:30] I’ll tell you what, if I get really excited and people know that I when I get excited, I just kind of like start really diving into things. MJ Could you tell us what’s going on with the African Energy Chamber this year, and what are some of your hottest topic topics right now?
NJ Ayuk [00:02:46] You know, we still have to deal with big issues around energy growth and building energy poverty in Africa, and I think it has continued to stay at the forefront of these issues. And I think as you see in the next few weeks, we’re going to have cop. So we I’ve been walking a lot planning, giving African leaders the ingredients, the needs, the argument, the need to combat a global wave that is seen.
Dr. Robert Brooks [00:03:12] In.
NJ Ayuk [00:03:13] Fossil fuel production in Africa. Just stop oil and move quickly into renewables, which we’re not against. But we want to do that. And in our own timeline, we still we work with African governments to improve their fiscal regimes and look at regulatory issues and deal with ground race issues to make them attractive for investments to come in, but also the same time and driving of African energy producers, African companies to be competent enough to be able to be those drivers of change that a continent wants to see or people want to see. But also we’ve been advocating for market discipline, personal responsibility, individual liberty and rights and pushing governments to work on fiscal responsibility issues. And that is really something that has kept the African Kamba really busy this year. I barely spent a week a month at home. It’s a big it’s a big base, a lot of pressure. But I think that, you know, those of us that have been given a lot more education, great education, United States, great opportunity, we owe it to so many that have not that to give back and to really open doors so that we can unleash an African potential to have an African dream, because that is really when we start seeing.
Stuart Turley [00:04:34] Right. You know, there is a theory that I have done in the past, and that is the more money that is wasted in bad energy policies, the more fossil fuels are used. And we’re seeing that play out in Germany and New York, in the UK, when energy policies are saying that they want to go to 100%. Renewable energy and not worry about. They want to cut out like Germany, cutting out their nuclear power plants and now they’re having to reopen their coal plants. And it makes more sense that we go to low cost natural gas first. And really, instead of coal in Johannesburg, in South Africa, uses a lot of coal. And so if we have a least amount of impact on the environment, it would seem that we want to use natural gas as a resource in Africa. Dr. Brooks, I believe you had a great question just a minute ago. Do you want to rephrase kind of get that question back in there and and let MJ tackle that one?
Dr. Robert Brooks [00:05:40] Yeah, I will do that. And you know, just to comment on what you just said, I mean, I think it’s a great point. You know, I was recently had a chance to have dinner actually with a couple, a husband and wife from Germany, and the wife could speak passable English. The husband couldn’t speak at all. And so and I can only speak German. So we had a conversation through the wife. And really they were sort of I was kind of surprising, but they were talking about the de industrialization of Germany. It is the most insane thing that you could imagine that the country that produced, that had the best engineers and the best manufacturing on the entire planet. It’s just being totally wasted because of what you were just talking about. Now, energy costs are so expensive and and so forth, and they’re importing so many goods from China and other places that, you know, the German people are really beginning that, you know, slide, I think, down the economic scale and. Right. It is really very, very sad. So what you said is really correct. You know, I think what we have found and this is a little bit political, but, you know, the more that government in imposes themselves on energy policy, as a general rule, the worse things go. You know, things get worse, not better. And it’s it’s better to you know, I mean, here’s another thing in and I’m sorry to take all the time, but, you know, I don’t know if Jay went to gas tech but I was at Gas Tech in Houston, 45,000 people there. I went to a number of the different talks that were given. And when the when the talk was given by like a CEO of Chevron or something like this, it’s like you listen to these people and you say, you know, these people know what they’re doing. You know, they’re they are truly experts that really understand. And then you listen to the government people and it’s like, this guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about. You know, I mean, it’s it’s truly that way. And these are people who are supposedly they’re working for the government and supposedly they understand energy and energy policy and all. They don’t know anything. It’s just idea ideology. So when ideology is more important than practicality or pragmatics or just, you know, general understanding of economics to those sort of things, it’s generally not going to be good. So, okay, I’m done with my rant. But you asked me we had been talking a little bit previously about, you know, what happens in terms of a government where I say investment in Africa. And they were indicating that there was a trend for more investment by oil and gas majors around the world in Africa. And you pointed to, I think, more to the offshore rather than onshore. So I think we need to distinguish offshore and onshore because there are very, very different kinds of activities. But, you know, basically, in order for a company to do drilling, whether it’s offshore Angola or Nigeria or Mozambique or South Africa or any of these places, they have to have an agreement in place. That concession by the government that is going to allow them to do this. And part of that concession or agreement involves how do you split the revenue or how do you split the profits or whatever it is. So it’s not just that Western company can come in and take 100% of the value of these other countries that some split is necessary. Now, Inge would be know a lot more about what is fair and what’s not fair and all of the other aspects of that. But the point is, what happens to the revenue that goes to the African country? Does that end up going to just the top leader and his cronies? You know, the the elite, the the who are in charge of that country or does it go into funds that truly are going to help that country to develop, to develop the economy as it should? So I think that that’s very important. And and so I’d like to have MJ comment about that, but I also would like him to comment on one related thing, which is I don’t really hear that much about onshore development of oil and gas resources. In Africa. But, you know, you would think that onshore would be a very different thing in the sense that onshore you would have potentially opportunities for smaller companies in Africa to actually participate, whereas offshore development, there’s no way that you can get a wildcatter. You know, even in Texas, you know, you don’t have small companies doing offshore much offshore development in the deepwater Gulf of Mexico. I mean, this is billions and billions of dollars. So it’s a very different thing. So I hope I haven’t made this too complicated. But, you know, kind of two related questions there for you now.
NJ Ayuk [00:10:38] And I know you are American. Buy one, get one, buy one, get one free. You traded there. Well, you know, as that as we get coming around having dinner with the German you’re right the the industrialized in Germany and that’s going to really hurt them basically. But also one of the things you’re going to look at is that the polarization and the demonization of the fossil fuel industry and natural gas is really, really troubling, not just in America or Europe, but globally. And it’s really affecting us. You’re not going to leapfrog from coal into solar, you know, the sun. It’s not going to blow forever and still going to shine forever. The wind is still going to blow for everybody. You might need natural gas for ever to in order to get us into a just an orderly transition, because you need to have pragmatic, common sense and approach in order to make sure that we don’t shut off energy systems, we don’t create a volatile energy market, and we continue to move that. I’m amazed that in a country like America, land of the free home of the Braves, where they always get it right. They have shifted so radical to and to the left that we don’t know how to even discuss high quality energy discussions anymore when it comes to Africa. With your contract and with what you see. These conversations are being signed with governments because most of the conversations do say that the natural resources belong to the state. But we have to rethink that because if we don’t rethink that, we are going to have a system where we continuously have a lot of money going through to the state, whether it ends up corruption or ends up with politicians in parliament doing a lot of projects, but we not really. And then we have strong government control of the market and the economy. That is not the best system for us. We need to embrace more free market solutions where every day people are building businesses, driving up the economy. We’re taking the country by the reins. They look at their partnership and they become drivers of the future. So let’s look at onshore offshore gas. Offshore exploration is big, and I put it this way to do an offshore where you’re looking at 60 to $90 million deepwater, well, that’s a lot of money for anybody to go. Could be onshore Africa to spot an onshore where you look at between 7 to $15 million. That’s something that even African banks, African development banks or even people raising small private equity or hedge funds or small capital markets, they can even do that and still be able to compete. But yes, yes. The sweet part about onshore gas developing in Africa. You know what? Because it’s been developing, communities are really need that natural gas. You’ll be able to solve our energy poverty and problems because that gas can be tapped right within that community and they will be able to pay for it and you’ll be able to develop that gas and you’ll be able to do something. The if the gas is too much. You’ll be able to do some of the byproducts of natural gas you put on the sea for security. And you know how you address that. You look at fertilizer plants, urea, ammonia and PKI, you do that. And then we solve our food security problems because most people who are shouting about and just stop oil and oil today don’t understand what Africa goes through with food insecurity. If you’re in natural gas production today, 50% of Africans are left to perish because we would not have picked places to really grow our agricultural products. Isn’t it something that a country at war, Ukraine, is supplying Africa with food? That is something that is stunning and we need to rethink where we are right now. And so those that call for end of natural gas and oil exploration onshore, they should truly be thinking who they’re trying to help. Is it the African people or are they trying to satisfy the ideology? Our lives in Africa are so much important and so better. We’re not some case study that you could sit in the Hamptons sipping your martini and discussing us as some kind of case study in your thesis. We do think we. Deserve to have the dignity of live under dignity, to be able to build better families.
Stuart Turley [00:15:04] Yes, absolutely.
Dr. Robert Brooks [00:15:05] Totally agree with you. A couple of points here. Is it okay if I take off or you have a question?
Stuart Turley [00:15:11] I’m sorry. I want to get you up. I’m sorry. I want to give you a hug. And Jay, that was absolutely wonderful. Sorry.
Dr. Robert Brooks [00:15:17] Yeah, that absolutely great. And I think, you know, your points on first of all, the demonization of fossil fuels is very counterproductive, certainly for Africa and other places. And I would just say ignore it. You know, that my my advice to Africa would be to whatever extent you can ignore that, because that’s just dumb. It’s just stupid. And, you know, natural gas is really, really important. And one of the reasons why it’s important is in addition to what you were just talking about, is that in many, many natural gas formations, you actually have wet natural gas, which means that it has a lot of of liquids with it. And those liquids are primarily propane and some degree of butane is another thing. But the point is that if you produce the natural gas, if it is wet, you can separate the liquids relatively, it’s not totally inexpensive, but it’s straightforward. The technology is very, very well known to separate the liquids. And then the liquids themselves are a hugely important product. Propane and LPG is such an important product to get people off of biofuels for cooking and heating in African places, which are very my understanding is that they cause a lot of illness, especially to women and babies in homes, you know, who are continually facing the fumes from fires and wood fires and charcoal fires and so forth. You can get inexpensive stovetops that are run by LPG, that use LPG for for cooking. And it makes a whole complete different difference, you know, and it’s huge. And there have been a few places where it’s caught on there in Africa and they’ve done well. But it, it’s got a huge potential for the future. The other really, really, really important thing is that the LPG can be moved by truck and then by small transport. So that means that you have jobs for people, you know, in delivering fuel to central depots and then for small delivery vehicles to deliver, you know, tanks of LPG to people’s homes around the country. So in other words, it doesn’t require the expense of building out a full fledged natural gas delivery system, pipeline system, which is often expensive. So, you know, to me the ideal scene would be LPG for, you know, home and and for small businesses, especially the ones that are using it for fuels, restaurants and so forth. And then you use the natural gas for electric power. So you use that, you build your electric power because those are the two things that you really need. Okay? You need to handle your, you know, your local fuel needs and commercial fuel needs. But everybody needs electric power. And so, you know, that’s the thing that I think is is missing from much of Africa at this point and can be handled through your own resources and potentially at a lower cost than developing offshore giant offshore oil and gas fields, which, by the way, mostly are oil fields because the super majors want oil, because oil is so much more profitable than natural gas. So they’re not as interested truly in natural gas. So I think that this is potentially a way to go. And, you know, they could be really helpful to the people. And, you know, I, I know that things are are still very difficult in Africa. But, you know, they I think that there has been a fair amount of progress. And one thing that actually really, really creates hope in my mind for Africa is the success recently that we’ve seen in India. So India is doing so much better than what it was. I mean, just, you know, earlier in my life, India was, you know, it was always considered to be, you know, an interesting country and interesting history and religions and traditions and all of those things. But just unbelievable poverty, you know, just I mean, it was like there was no chance. I mean, just look at, you know, some of the movies. You know, recently there was one that was just horrible, you know, about that was quite an interesting movie. But you know about the conditions in in India. You know, you had that in China also, but there were very different development programs in the in India and China. In China, because of its background. And communistic government was a centrally, centrally planned economy from the very beginning. And it was going nowhere. It was. It didn’t work at all. Again, this is the government officials don’t know what the heck that they’re doing really, you know, compared to experts. But under I believe it was Nixon originally, you know, the United States decided to help China by bringing it into the world economy instead of isolating it. And so China became this very, very strange combination of communism and what I call super capitalism, you know. You know, and so you have all these billionaires in China and still there’s a lot of poverty. But generally, if you’ve been to China, you know, I mean, it’s actually doing reasonably well economically, you know. So India was in that same boat just like China was in the 50s and 60s, you know, just, you know, unbelievable poverty. But then this guy, Modi was elected president. And I remember when he came to Houston, I was here just in Houston in 2019 or 2020. He came and spoke in Houston. There was a huge Indian population at Houston, and they took the giant NRG Stadium and filled it with Indian people for him to speak. But this guy, you know, I know that there’s been criticism of him, and I don’t really know the full extent, but under his leadership, India has turned around. I mean, they have done actually really, really quite well. But I think India is less central plan and more entrepreneurial spirit like you are talking about in Texas and the United States traditionally. And so they’ve been on a different development path. So maybe there are some lessons to be learned. You know, for Africa, you know, from the experience of India and of course, what you were saying earlier about BRICs and and how the China and Russia and South Africa and various other countries kind of getting together to counterbalance the the West, you know, the G7. You know, I have mixed feelings about that. But maybe there are some, you know, positive things that could come from that. I know I’ve heard that China is investing a lot in Africa, But, you know, maybe what you were saying and maybe, again, you should look a little bit more at examine what India has done that has been helpful and workable for for their economy that might be different from the pathway that China has taken. So what do you think about that?
Stuart Turley [00:22:21] Also, MJ, also, Dr. Brooks, you brought up some great, great points, but also M.J. last week, BRICs had their meeting and they created a grain a consortium to help food amongst BRICs members. Maybe they will table that question here for a bit. Have you heard of that? Because that’s another thing as well. So sorry.
NJ Ayuk [00:22:41] I think BRICs is a very, very important economic bloc that they’ve had. But we have to be very careful if that economic block they’re trying to build as BRICs, if it becomes something that is anti-Western and I think is going to fail and it’s going to be counterproductive. You cannot take any interest in politicize the contribution or negate the advantage of things that Western civilization has driven for us. It has driven human flourishing. It has taught us a lot of things on how to really be able to build societies. But also it has also given us things that we could need to value the most. And that has really been able to to unleash our potential and our freedoms. That is, they believe in democracy. They believe in the rule of law. They believe in private property and all of that. Those principles are so guide us, so guiding that great shape away from that, then you’re creating a system where you’re going to have oligarchs and you’re going to have central governance and you’re going to have more dictatorships or emperors and all of that. That is not what is supposed to be our future in talking about a multipolar world. Of course, the Western financial systems have not been good for us or some of that. But, you know, I go, what is say don’t be mandate on fixing. So you look at issues around like I have always been critical of the Western financial systems where they where they look at natural gas in Europe and say it’s great energy and they can finance it. But then you look at natural gas in Africa to see it’s not great energy they wouldn’t finance. And also they are tendencies to look at Africa and to fill in the egos of the Western elites. And all they want to talk about is eight, eight, eight, eight handouts and foreign aid. But we do look at this thing and say you’ve put $800 billion in this continent in foreign aid, man. It’s given us nothing. He’s actually held us back. We’re like, stop giving us aid is helping us. And so BRICs brings a new sense where you talk about. Going to be development. It’s gonna be trade is gonna be breaking down some of the trade barriers, even though a lot of BRICs countries have to walk in because we had an African, we do have a low trade deficit with Russia, a lot of trade deficit with China. Right ship comes to Africa from China with a lot of goods and services and that ship goes right back to China empty. We need to be addressing that and all of that. And that is where we come in, just saying that we need to get a fair trade balance, where again, this gets back to the beginning of this discussion. Produce in Africa might in fact, actually Africa grow in Africa, because what you produce in Africa, manufacturing in Africa grew in Africa. When that ship comes from China is going back to China with our own goods. So if you’re not going to let our goods cannot be China. We’re not going to let your goods come to Africa. And the same with Brazil, The same with it’s great. Same with Russia. It’s not Protectionism is just calling. It’s just calling it equal trade. And it’s going to have to be fair. But we can’t do that hating west. That is just wrong. It doesn’t make sense. We can’t do that. Saying whatever has coming to us. I think Africa and Western societies are like peanut butter and jelly. They get along well and I think that creates that relationship that that’s gone through pain, difficulties with. Sometimes we always find a way to drive through the same singsong, but we also have to welcome all the partners in order to see that we can fast track our development given where we are right now. But I am concerned with anything that comes with us, with breaks that is politicized against Western society. That is wrong. And I think it would not work in Africa and we better be careful how we approach that.
Stuart Turley [00:26:44] Outstanding points.
Dr. Robert Brooks [00:26:46] Yeah, I agree. I think I think that’s fantastic. Now, I would say, you know, the viewpoint that you’re expressing is a what we would call a a traditional, which is very, very similar to a traditional American point of view. You know, this is hard work, investment, thoughtful, not depending on others, you know, self dependance to a degree while still working together. But, you know, those are values that I think have been very successful over the last few hundred years in the United States. And to the extent that even in the United States or Western Europe, they’ve gone to systems that involve more and more government handouts and that sort of thing. It has been destructive, destructive of their economics. So, you know, personally, I’m in very strong agreement with you. But I have a question for you, M.J. Are you finding that your viewpoint, are you a lone wolf crying in the wilderness of Africa, or do you do you find that there are a lot of younger people or, you know, people your own age, which is sort of semi young? Are they are they resonating with you? Are they do they have similar values or or are they sort of stuck in this, you know, this other kind of viewpoint that is not very successful? Because I agree. I think that, you know, that idea that you have could be very successful anywhere if it caught hold. And people agree that that is the way that the thing should operate.
NJ Ayuk [00:28:20] Robert, We started the opportunity chamber in 20 late 2018, and in 2020 2021, we had about 100,000 members. In 2024 we have 4.3 million members. So we actually larger than some countries. So it is resonating. It is catching because Africans do realize one thing. They see that there’s better opportunities for them and can be better opportunities for them if we make that happen in Africa than crossing the Mediterranean and or dying through the Sahara to go walk on European streets. There is also a segment of Africa that because of its frustration with what they’ve seen with Western society and some of the inequalities they’ve seen. For example, when you look at Covid, where most of them where refuse vaccines, they have tended to go towards a radical extremist path that has been more embracing into dictatorship. Sometimes that because they’ve been frustrated with imperfect democracies. But the truth of the matter is that democracies is a walk in progress and you have to make it work by creating economic appointees. That’s why you have to get with those principles of limited government. And I think is catching on is solid majority. The reason why we why you look at Africa today that you find somebody come from America or Europe and start talking about these the almond milk and goat cheese energy transition crap that this tribe is few out there. It doesn’t stick because people just don’t buy that you try to. Where do you try to go? Do you say, you know what, Your life is gonna belong in the hands of NGO. It doesn’t stick. I’m the guy who, weeks ago I had 1000 people protesting in front of my office sponsored by Western NGOs to protest against what we do. There is a reason for that. The problem here is that we are fed up with their neo liberal ideas that comes in and say NGOs and handouts are going to be a path you future. That is telling you that being the perfect queen is your path to success. It doesn’t work on people like us and is saying, You know what? They see Africans today and it’s the young ones. They are more sophisticated than anybody would expect. And these NGOs tend to think that they can just do handouts and say, we give you $5 to go practice and buy into this radical idea and some fried chicken. I think that’s insulting. Well, they can get on Instagram, they can get on Tik Tok, they can get on Facebook. And they’re looking at the young, they’re looking at two young Americans sitting in Boston and they’ve never, never had a mortgage. They did run the largest hotel chain called A, B and B, and they say, I can be like these guys. They’re still young Americans, innovators. They’re creating different things and they drive in and they’re harnessing the power of technology. And this then we can we can beat that. We created mobile money and perfected it so well in Kenya that it became a system that the Germans are now using. And they say, if we can unleash our potential and we’re not truck to them across Africa, they say, listen, create an enabling environment and deal with your above ground risk issues. We already there is that hunger because they know that they can make billions and billions of dollars by being in Africa. So there is that hope. So I think that big picture where we’re waiting for the benevolent white man to come from Europe or America to save us, it’s not there anymore. That’s why I keep telling everybody, Superman is not coming. Batman is not coming. Wakanda Forever is a good movie, but a Black Panther is not coming. You would have to get through the good old fashioned hat walk, and people tend to recognize it, and I think most Africans tend to agree with us. Then they agree with this radical mindset that it’s not going to work. And I think you’ve seen a shift, and that’s why we continue to attract a lot more people into our energy movement. That is not just all about energy, but it’s about markets, about race issues and enabling environment and inspiring people to unleash your true potential to make sure that they can do for themselves what what the NGOs or the government expect for them. That kind of libertarian mindset where you are free if free thinker and you free to really drive yourself and use market and marketing market market and free market enterprise to drive development in your communities, it’s what is really going to drive our content and we’ve seen a big movement towards that.
Dr. Robert Brooks [00:33:05] Well, that’s very hopeful. I’m really glad to hear that. I know, you know, I’ve gone to.
NJ Ayuk [00:33:10] I’m a prisoner of.
Dr. Robert Brooks [00:33:11] Hope. Yeah, well, I think that’s great. And don’t worry about those people who are, you know, who are protesting or whatever outside of your offices. That’s, you know, that’s just an indication that you’re having a good effect and it.
Stuart Turley [00:33:25] Means you’re doing the right.
Dr. Robert Brooks [00:33:26] Thing. Thank them. You should thank them and say thank you very much. You know, you recognize that we’re a threat to what you’re doing. That’s great. You know, we’re doing better than I thought, you know, So so, so that’s really great. And I certainly hope that, you know, that you grow, you know, this kind of thinking. Your organization grows, your influence grows, so forth. I have seen this, by the way, even at economics conferences. You know, I’ve been part of a association for any Energy economics, International Association for Energy Economics, and at various conferences around the world. And you do see groups, small groups of Africans who are part of this. And, you know, when you talk to them, you know, they’re obviously, you know, these are very smart young people, you know, who really do want change. You know, they really do want to to help their their individual countries. They’re not from the same country. And of course, sometimes we forget Africa. We think Africa is some little dinky thing. Africa is like huge. And there’s, you know, lots of different areas within Africa that all have their own individual problems. So I do recognize that. But anyway, the the point is that, you know what, unfortunately, I think we’ve found here in J. Is that a lot of these young people, as they as they move from academia, you know, to where they’re going to be going to their careers, where do they end up going? They end up going to Houston, you know, to L.A., to New York, you know, to other places in the United States, because they recognize. At. The opportunities are still for them and their families are better. There’s a huge number of Nigerians in Houston, for example. Why aren’t they? Why aren’t they in Nigeria? Doing good works in Nigeria. So I would hope that this would be a factor that gradually and maybe even faster can change. You know, I’ll just say one thing and then let you talk, please. A long time ago, I was hiring for my company and and a couple of Indians came. And these are Indians who were young people who had just gotten out of college and were looking for their first jobs. And, of course, you know, they’re working for an American company in Los Angeles at that time. And they were just, you know, happy to have jobs. But every single one of them had the dream that they were going to go back to India and help back in India. My guess is that, you know, so many of these Nigerians who are in Africans, who are in the Houston area, probably most of them working in the oil and gas industry like you did, probably because that’s what’s big here. And computer industry, which is big here, too. But, you know, probably in their hearts, they would like to go back, you know, and and do something that would help, you know, their their parents might still be leaving their their uncles, their and their cousins might still be living in Nigeria or Angola or South Africa or wherever it is, you know, and they want to help. So anyway, there’s a lot of resource there. Just want to mention that, that there is a lot of resource in the United States that could be part of your movement, you know, to help Africa to do, you know, to meet its own destiny in a very successful way.
NJ Ayuk [00:36:35] I agree with you. I think we need to have a concerted effort to actually attract Africans in the diaspora to come right back and contribute. Right. And you describe your not sort of America, as has has given some of the best training to Africans, be it engineers, be lawyers, be doctors, be geologists, be an economist. You came, you came. But you also marry American. And I love that country. What’s the difference in time? We we have a different perspective. We have we have to prove that the African environment is good or anything. But we also need to stop looking at ourselves as victims. Yes. What we need to challenge our own public system to create that environment that welcomes criticisms, welcomes innovation, work people, different ideas, because that’s how we’re going to unleash our true potential. And I think those of us that have the ears of leadership that have the possibility to to to really open its doors, it is up to us to open that open that I mean, it’s not for the faint of hearts. It’s that, you know, we have to make sure that even if frozen chosen can still be able to just be here and work with the families. That is what we must do. Because when we do that, then we really be we really able to bring people that have an amazing ability. All right. Because if you want to develop an app today, you want to be in Africa because you going to see a lot of challenges. And your app will be having more impact. It will it will really fix challenges and fix problems that we got work to do in Africa, how we do our governance issues, how we do it, freedom issues, how we do democracy, how we do it in the business, how we do it. Taxes. You can’t tax somebody too damn much out of business. You know, a guy comes through United States, maybe takes money out of his fall one day, has $500,000, and by the time he even makes a dollar, he’s already given the government 100,000, $150,000 in taxes. When it buys these and say, if you come from outside with money, I’m going to go right here. We are going to give you that freedom to walk for at least, what, three, four, five years without taxes. So that gives you a chance to take an opportunity in this race and be a passion because you don’t just need quick capital, you need passion, capital. And when you have patient capital, these people can use that American spirit to that they are going to get up at 4 a.m. and go out there and really hustle and really that and show an example that others could see Iraq to riches stories. And it can be done right here. So we need to be pushing that and we driving that. And, you know, I’m a guy I’m a low tax guy, so I’m always I never forget you kind of president. Your taxes are too damn high. Cut the damn thing so that Bob money can go around and, you know, you can have multiplier jobs and you can have you can expand the tax base by getting more people jobs and everything, getting more money, getting more taxes in the hands of politicians. I have never seen a good result with that. I read that people have jobs and rather have more opportunities. And you talked about helping you imagine. Getting this RPG and getting Detour pipelines ready and waiting for big pipelines before pipeline through trucks and getting up there. So you don’t need it. You just need some juice to getting these things to work.
Stuart Turley [00:40:09] I love it. Well, I’ll tell you what, we’re about out of time here. But MJ, how do people get a hold of you at the African Energy at your website? I’ve got your LinkedIn. It will be in the show notes. But what is the website for the African Energy Chamber?
NJ Ayuk [00:40:24] It’s called Energy Camp. Energy chamber.org. You could visit us and next week we’re going to be hosting the largest energy event in Africa. Something similar to gas tech on Ceraweek is called the African Energy. Nice. Lord help me. We got people coming from everywhere, from Europe, the United States, China, India, Russia and all over Africa. We are going to be a nice step to defend the right to use fossil fuels. We don’t think fossil fuels is the enemy. If fossil if emissions are the problem, let us work with technologies to capture emissions and keep trying to operate in a low carbon fashion, a fashion that makes you growth in Africa. And that’s we end because let’s not forget this for us is not an addiction to fossil fuels. Or as you say, we all junkies know, 600 million Africans don’t have access to electricity, 900 don’t have access to clean cooking technologies, most of them women. We cannot meet both United Nations Sustainable Development Goals for a continent that produces less than 3% greenhouse gas emission is being told that you cannot use your natural resources to better the lives of your people. We are all we are going to give you aid to leave your resources in the ground. I think that’s colonization gone green and we stand to oppose that in Africa. Need to week and we want to work with our partners in Europe, the United States, wherever to really be able to drive up sustainable gas development in Africa while at the same time bringing renewables into our energy systems. We’re not against renewables. We just believe that it should not be choked down to us in a way that does not really help us.
Stuart Turley [00:42:07] Well said I. This is so I just again, I can’t wait to give you a hug one day because I just really like everything that you just said, and I cannot wait to get this story out. Dr. Brooks, thank you so much. How do people get a hold of you?
Dr. Robert Brooks [00:42:22] Well, our website is very simple. You know, RBCA.com or www.RBCA.com. We’ve got a lot of information there. You know, our work, you know, has to do with more sort of planning, you know, in support of planning in the energy industry focused on natural gas. And, you know, we are as a company, you know, we are very interested in the future of Africa. It’s a big question mark. I’ll just say that in you know, I mean, it can go in so many different ways. And we really appreciate the fact that you are one of the few, I think, guiding lights for a rational future for Africa here. And I certainly wish you the best of success. I don’t know what the future will hold, whether you and I or Cyrus and you or whatever might find ways of working together. We certainly have a very common goal as far as Africa is concerned. And, you know, really the whole world, you know, you know, we want Bangladesh to do better. You know, we want other areas of the world in south South America that are, you know, that are not doing very well. We would like them to do better. You know, it’s not just Africa, but certainly Africa is one which has been, you know, traditionally has has not gotten, I think, its fair share and its fair a fair deal. So it’s time, you know, it’s time for Africa. And it takes people like you, you know, to move that forward. And I wish you the best of success in all of your efforts there.
Stuart Turley [00:43:53] Well, thank you so much.
NJ Ayuk [00:43:55] God bless you.
Stuart Turley [00:43:56] Hey, thank you, Andrea. And thank you all so much. And for that, we will have all of their contact information in the show notes. And thank you for stopping by the Energy News Beat podcast for.
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